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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 15:20:10 GMT -5
i was just talking to my boy about this the other day. Car companies in general have just dropped the ball. The styling of the new cars are shit and the motors suck. Like cevax the k series motor is the same shit as the b series. All the companies are pushing economical, electric cars i mean look at whats going on in the world everybodys at the point of financial failure. And with what happened in Japan we're screwed for quite some time. I was reading super street the other day and all i keep seeing was tuning electric cars (prius, volt, crz, etc.) I mean i wanted to trade my '10 lancer for a new evo only to see its gonna be a hybrid!!!! wheres the fun in that? ? Its sad to say but for those of us that are real tuners our time has past. We are now becoming "old school" lol. I dont see them coming out with any cars that are gonna be the high hp/trq, awd/rwd beasts. Besides b/c all these new cars are electric/hybrid the amount of money to build one these cars is gonna be expensive and IMO not worth the money. Its no longer pistons,rods, crank and head work. Now its a lot more involved from the electronic aspect of things. Ive just come to grips with it and realized that if im gonna put time/money into building anything its not gonna be newer than an '03.
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cevax
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 15:49:44 GMT -5
The sad thing about this is that electric is not even the future, I am not sure why the giants push on electric. The manufacturing of batteries is not exactly environmentally friendly, and disposing of batteries is almost impossible. They take hundreds of thousand of years to break down. If electric cars become as popular as gas cars we are going to have a major pollution problem. Look at the problem we have with computers, sure you dont hear about it because it appears to be a well kept secret. But landfields are full of them, there are cities in other countries that are dumping grounds for those dead batteries and tech. Imagine when you have 600 pounds of battery that you have to dispose off.
Also Electricity still needs to be generated to charge said batteries and on top of that 36 pounds of batteries is the equivalent of less than half a gallon of gas in energy. How is that going to bring us anywhere?
There hasn’t been a new battery tech in over 10 years and I don’t expect one soon. THe Electric cars are for people that absolutely hate driving and only drive to get errands done so the miniscule range is ok to them. To the enthusiast its a punch in the face.
Hydrogen is the future and all the companies have their head up there ass to realize it.
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 16:04:08 GMT -5
yea i hear you bro it sucks balls
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Post by sk149 on Jul 14, 2011 17:40:04 GMT -5
I'm not a Honda fan but I am a motor fan and idk about this k series being weak and torque less the b series ended right where the k series started. I dont consider a 4 cylinder that can have 300+whp 260+wtq all motor weak and torque less and I've seen k's on boost over 900+ whp that's very impressive for a 2.0/2.4 4 cylinder ... I might go as far enough to say that it might be the greatest all motor 4 cylinder ever made and unlike Toyota which short lived the 2zz(which I really wish they didn't), Honda has had the k20 out since I believe 2003 and they still are making it and making it better
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cevax
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 19:05:23 GMT -5
Any motor can be made great if you decide to spend a fortune on it. Stock to stock, the kseries is not very impressive. I have seen 1000 horsepower bseries, I have seen 375 horse N/A singlecam Fseries. A freind boss has a 470 horsepower 2liter saab he built like 15 years ago and drives it everyday. 700horse twincharged 4age motors, or a 450 horse bone stock 4agze motor. Once an engine is built, its reliability and greatness is completely on the hands of the builder. So you can start with a geo 3 cylinder and make it into something great
Stock the best 4banger honda ever made, was the s2000 fseries, that engine has handled over 700 horsepower with a 100 percent bonestock engine block. Another great one was the evo8 motor, completely bulletproof out of the factory. Honda should be cranking out killer engine, way better than the kseries. They make cbr engines for godsake
If I am paying 25k or more for a "sports car" I dont expect to spend another 10 on making the car actually fast. On a 4 cylinder, turbo or gtfo... civic si MUGEN = kseries 220 horse and 149lbs of torque... (I have seen motorcycles with more than that) ....and you can have all this for only for 31000. Sounds like a great deal right VS a 2011 eclipse 263 horse 260 torque for 1000 dollars less and will spank it all day long. Again 4cy turbo or gtfo otherwise get a v6.......... its sad to say but the americans and koreans will be the next kings of 4cylinders
Like I am an engine nut as well and I just dont understand why spend thousands I mean thousands more on a kseries for the same exact performance. Any newer honda stock falls flat on its face when compared to a real sports car ....why because the 4 cylinder cant keep up
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Post by sk149 on Jul 14, 2011 19:38:59 GMT -5
All those motors you just said are older than the k series ... And yeah you can reach high numbers all motor with any motor but it's going to cost you $$$$$ and lots of it and usually is something that takes a lot of time for someone on a normal salary ... There's people all over south Florida building k's that have part time jobs and sometimes even younger than me that are making 240whp and up there's even some that get a little serious and are at 300+whp all motor and they aren't putting the motors in 3300lb cars they are putting them in cars that weigh 2300 with driver and it's only costing them 7k to do this and it takes them 4-6 months to get it running i watch this shit happen those cars are running low 11's on the track and these cars arent built with extremely expensive parts ... I know any motor can be built up and run hard but the amount of money and time it takes is the big difference ... And people don't build b's any more and if they do they eventually switch to k because they see their motor can't reach the potential that a k can
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Post by sk149 on Jul 14, 2011 19:43:37 GMT -5
And stock for stock is one thing but it's what happens when you mod them up that's what matters otherwise you would see these new eclipses racing every where and beating these hondas but they aren't because it's not the same to mod on of those then to mod a k it's ten times easier
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Post by 305rolla on Jul 14, 2011 20:12:44 GMT -5
the 2zz was just a deal that they made with yamaha and they still make it for the lutos
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 20:23:52 GMT -5
i do agree with you sk the k series is a good motor i just think that car companies in general have fallen short of expectations IMO. I mean when you came out with cars like the supra, nsx, mr2, etc. you just kinda wait for whats next!!!! unfortunately i wouldve expected a much more aggressive line from these companies but they all have shifted towards the economical vehicles. Now the k series is great b/c of the accesibilty and variety offered on modding parts but as far as from an individual standpoint what else is there. Its like honda was like this is it and as for toyota, i mean scion REALLY? ?? thats like a slap in the face to us b/c when ur talking about time and money ur really not getting much. As good as the k series its another mainstream motor where everybody and there mother has one and i dont want it. I started modding my rolla to be different b/c i was tired of seeing all the si's and what not out there. Toyota needs to step their game up and give us something worth modding again
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 20:31:32 GMT -5
You will never see the eclipse popular, it has always and will always be considered a girls car but a 4th gen eclipse will reach 300 horse with just and intake and full exhaust, they can be pushed high with superchargers but you are right the market just isn't there. But when you take swapping the engine and putting it on an older car then yea the kseries is the SAME as the B but in the newer chassis with the airbags and all the amenities no the k series is not enough to charge 24k to 31k for it This thread is how car manufactures no longer make engines like they did before and thats why I listed older engines because the best of the breed are the older engines (4cyl) They are simpler, just as reliable, in some cases more economic and on top of that make more power. Look at new toyota engines, the rods are made out of horse shit. BUT v6's and v8's though are a different story, the newer ones are better hands down, tons of power great torque and fuel economy.. (honda continues put rods the size of Tampax tampons on it, great stock just don't ever touch it). My point is that comparing the K to the B there is really not a real difference in performance. Also people Don't build b's anymore? damn I guess that must be a Florida thing then cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rsx-Type-R-K20a-6speed-Engine-Only-Rsx-Type-R-Motor-Dc5-/260814899502?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb9c7892e See that....I can build you a fully built sleeved bseries for that much My problem is the b series ended right where the k series started, same old shit with a timing chain and facing the other way.
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Post by sk149 on Jul 14, 2011 20:33:50 GMT -5
True that I miss all those cars, 90's was japans time supra nsx skyline rx7 there will never be cars like that ever again I'd personally rather have a r34 over a r35
And yes I'm with you I'm tired of these hondas to that's why I'm a Toyota guy and that's why I have a 20v
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Post by sk149 on Jul 14, 2011 20:37:56 GMT -5
the 2zz was just a deal that they made with yamaha and they still make it for the lutos Very nice I did not know they still made it awsome news I wish they put it back in the corolla one can only wish though
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 20:45:10 GMT -5
honestly ive been more anxious to see what hyundai, kia, and ford keeps coming out with these seem to be the only companies actually really trying to make an effort with their cars
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 20:49:02 GMT -5
True that I miss all those cars, 90's was japans time supra nsx skyline rx7 there will never be cars like that ever again I'd personally rather have a r34 over a r35 And yes I'm with you I'm tired of these hondas to that's why I'm a Toyota guy and that's why I have a 20v yea its almost as if they built "too" good of cars!!!! those cars will forever be legendary in Japanese motorsports. to top them will become quite a difficult feet i just thought with all the advancements in engineering they wouldve already done so but unfortunately for us they have fallen very short
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 20:49:19 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly, the new sonata engine is FUCKING insane and the buick regal!!! that thing cranks out 300lbs out of an ecotec motor. I am telling you Koreans and Americans WANT it now and its simple, whoever wants it more will win
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 20:50:46 GMT -5
yea very true they are the cars of the future!!!!!!
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Post by 305rolla on Jul 14, 2011 20:53:37 GMT -5
american cars are coming back out with some real muscle cars look at the 5.0 the srt brand and the camaros. also the corvette will be coming out with a high reving motor with a turbo
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Post by mindbeats on Jul 14, 2011 20:57:12 GMT -5
yea i read about the vette with the turbo. OMFG!!!!!!! wanna talk about different thats gonna get a lot of peoples attention
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 20:59:02 GMT -5
yea very true they are the cars of the future!!!!!! I am actually more exited to see what they create, I remember in 05 I was in canada and I went to the auto show there and Mazda was just blabbering about how they got these amazing new engines and how they are going to continue there rotary design.... I AM WAITING MAZDA... I predict this, the japanese will continue to make small economic cars to gain money to create boring electric vehicles. While this is happening the American, Korean and European divisions will take the opportunity to Make better interesting cars to try and get back to the top.
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Post by cevax on Jul 14, 2011 21:00:31 GMT -5
Shit I will say it.. pre 2000 japanese FTMFW 2009 and up USDM FTMFW
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