Post by Chino Built on Jan 19, 2011 15:29:06 GMT -5
Toyota 4A-GE 20V Writeup
Sup Ppl, Just a small write up on the 4A-GE (20V Version)
Im sure if you're reading this ure a toyota fan ,so you know what a 4age is,
if not just a short review, the Silvertop aka ST was made from 1991-1995 and the blacktop aka BT made from 1995 to 1998...i guess here in south africa we got all the spare engines that toyota made, and then all the models got scrapped due too mileage restrictions... well the 4age ended its design and the 20v was the closest an engine in 1600cc got to high performance.... as per wikipedia, the following cars featured this engine...
Silvertop Applications:
* AT210 Carina 1996–2001 (Japan only)
* AE101 Corolla 1991–2000 (Japan only)
* AE101 Corolla Ceres 1991–1998 (Japan only)
* AE101 Sprinter 1991–1998 (Japan only)
* AE101 Sprinter Marino 1991–1998 (Japan only)
Blacktop Applications:
* AE101G Corolla BZ touring wagon 1995–1999 (Japan)
* AE111 Corolla 1995–2000 (Japan only)
* AE111 Sprinter 1995–1998 (Japan only)
* AE111 Sprinter Carib 1997–2000 (Japan only)
* AE111 Corolla RSi and RXi Late 1997– Early 2002 (South Africa)
Bore is 81mm Stroke 77mm. Block is cast iron and the head is aluminum,
displacement is 1587cc and the head is operated by a dohc's
Note that Honda B16 Vtec is 1595cc cause the stroke is 77.4mm , higher compression...
Variable Valve Timing
Apart from ITBS , 5 Valve Design ...the 20V's featured VVT (not VVT-L)
VVT is variable valve timing, in simple terms its like having a vernier
that gets dialed in(correct term, You DIAL a vernier or camshaft) by a switch, the ECU Triggers a solenoid which allows oil too pass the VVT cam pulley ,and activates the advancing...
this causes the intake and exhaust valves to stay opened at the same time..
its like this... too much air is good for top end, and higher rpms... well top end is made
at a higher rpm... less air is good for low down power because the airflow is smoother...
its like the waves in the ocean...the bigger the wave due to more water the more harsh it is...lol bad example...ANYWAYS! overlap means that while exhaust gases are being released ,the intake stroke process begins early so when the piston hits TDC (top dead centre) theres an extra amount off air for combustion. Im under belief that the angle is changed by 30 degrees.
So VVT allows more air for high RPM's... by taking air into the chamber Early....
You will notice some cars make more power by advancing the standard cam timing by like 1 - 3 teeth. If you own a 20v, put 12v off direct current too you solenoid, the car will idle very ruff,
im assuming since the oem cam lobes are 250 degree and it advances by 30 degree's, then the cam degree is now 280 degree... because my car had VVT on permanently and it sounded rough as a 280..... when dyno'd by 20v Blacktop with Silvertop rods and Silvertop Cams, the VVT Turned on gave me 13kilowatts extra on 6500 RPM
Let me not give you a story let me give you the differences in a comparison form.
Silvertop - Blacktop
Compression Ratio : 10.5:1 - 11:1
Inlet ports are opened with no dividers - 3 equal ports with good dividers
Different offset vvt gears
ECU's are completely different
AFM Controlled - Map + TPS Controlled
6.9kg flywheel - 5.9kg flywheel
34.5cc chamber with squish areas - 37.8cc and exhaust squish only
7.97 intake lift - 8.2mm intake lift
Spring tension belt idler - hyraulic unit
Thick con-rods at 506g with bolts - very thin rods at 485g with bolts
Plastic trumpets - rubber trumpets
C56 5 Speed Gearbox - C160 6 Speed Gearbox
120 kw - 121 kw (in south africa 115k cause we Hav low octane fuel i assume)
43mm Individual Throttle Bodies - 45mm I.T.B's
Light pistons with 5 Flycuts aka valve pockets - Heavy pistons and exhaust flycuts only
Convential gudgen pins - gudgen pins with tapered ends (8g lighter)
More Blacktop Notes
BT has a wider face on the inlet port side
BT has a wider botton on the manifold and 4 additional vacuum bleeds into one mini plenum.
round thottles - more heart shaped opening
BT has wider inlet ports
BT has larger exhuast ports
Square shape opening on the inside of the intake gasket/heat insulator - ST Has triangle shape
BT engine might be a interference engine!
BT has a larger airbox volume
BT has 2 teeth longer timing belt
ALL 20V Engines have Under-bucket shims (i tawt there wasnt any at all lol)
Yes guys i source my info from wikipedia, forums and my own experiences.
Ok so look at the image below, the black top piston in the middle has shallow flycuts, which explains the increase in compression, look at toda, even higher than blacktop and lighter than silvertop...
The inlet ports are really small compared too the black top,
also the blacktop is neat smooth , so its the better one for airflow
Look at the silvertop combustion chamber compared to the blacktop...
the silvertop is very untidy but remember, this plays a role in high compression ;-) less squish area means higher compression ,same concept as lowering the head or raising the pistion, the only problem is that the compression maybe too high, and it can cause detonation...sometimes maybe burn a valve, bust the plug...pre-ignition is an enermy for the silvertop but higher octane
fuel will sort this out or retard the timing but then achieving the high rpm is gonna be hard, remember low capacity engines need to be revv'd high to make some good power especially when you have ITB's
heres the rod differences, people waste money buying 4AGZE Rods,
not realizing its the same thing as ST ,SP Rods.
The blacktop rod is way smaller but its lighter to revv higher,
people say their weak, but i refuse too believe that... why would a conrod break???
so the typical word is that the Silvertop is better for turbo and head work...
TURBO NO! Headwork yes...
other typical is that the blacktop head works well with the silvertop block.
CORRECT!
another 1... blocking an oil port on the head(to be confirmed which port) allows
more oil pressure in the block...
well this makes sense in a way... i just cant comment ...from my view i would simply run a dry sump setup, or make a bigger sump, really...everything needs oil. apparantly synthetic oil works very well with the 20v applications. someone confirm this? tx.
another typical, using 50mm throttles from the BMW M3?
thats non sense, your intake ports are 45mm on a blacktop ,
having a bigger throttle on a smaller port can actually reduce airflow,
unless you make your ports 50mm....
one more very common myth is that blacktop con rods are weak.
heres what i have too say about that....
how many 1600's rev too 8000RPM? do you think a stock standard 20v RSI or RXI will break if you red line it everyday provided you service the car and maintain oil levels? ok who has broken a con rod? con rods are hardened steel!!! usually people run the conrod out the block, make a beeeeg hole! using the wrong oil, less oil and over rev'n will make the rod run the bearing and run off the crank and sieze, thats when it cannot rotate an it pushes down when the combustion process occurs! at high RPM's low quality oil or the wrong oil can become too thin, and loose some of its lubricating properties...and you guys should be happy that you even have 8000RPM, some guys get greedy and want to rev 9000 and even 9500...... doing that will take you no where cause a dyno report will prove that your car doesnt make an increase in power there.
toyota know what people do with 4AGE's and toyota put blacktop rods for a reason...
lighter to rev smoother and a higher rev range...
also 90% on project builders forget to balance your engines...
higher lift?
well as per toda ,the highest lift cam they make is 9.2...
im assuming the stock lift max is 8.5 giv or take...
with high rev springs, 9.2...
kelford sells 10.5mm lift and the toda springs cater for 11mm...not sure hey...
bare in mind ,the valves are in angles so theres no place,
maybe bigger valves with short stems. ... not sure bout that thou...
the header aka branch or exhaust manifold?
the best is the oem one, the oem one has 43/45 dia pipe and guess what? the ports
are the same size...i cant remember the exact figure but my blacktop matched the size of the off oem manifold. for race use, you might wanna go 4 into 1, ... bigger is not always better...
would a 20v 4AGE Make more power on a 72mm exhaust system or 57mm exhaust system? in its stock form...
So crossing these two engines is better than having one of either?
i cannot answer that really, i think its more or less the same in stock form...
notes on common hybrid
when i mean common hybrid, im talking bout the blacktop head and throttles on a silvertop block... it makes a strong setup but thats about it, the silvertop compression is made in the head and the blacktop in the block, you end up with a lower compression setup crossing them...
i think compression makes a bigger difference that 2mm on a throttle body,
i must stress on the importance off having the highest compression setup with the lightest internals, high comp cause of aspiration and light internals to revv high due too the small capacity.
So how would i build a 20v Engine?
I Believe toyota engines last long due too high quality materials so if you cannot afford Toda, HKS, TRD and others...then stick too oem.
so the only problem with the blacktop is that the combustion chamber is that theres no squish area, so just add squish area's...now thats gonna be tricky cause you have to be very accurate too make sure you add the same amount on all four... and its gonna be costly...
so its simple.....
take a silvertop engine...
blacktop rods and pistons(ceramic coat them) with ARP Conrod bolts
thinner head gasket,
make the inlet ports bigger and all the head work too get it like a blacktop...
remove squish rough lines so its smooth but dont cut too much cause you need the squish area...
blacktop cams are a good choice for this... from my personal experience my 20v Blacktop made more power with silvertop cams...dont ask me why...
i would remove the VVT ,and use verniers and higher degree split cams, like 272 intake 268 exhaust for everyday use, for weekend use 292 intake 276 exhaust, for complete race spec, i would use 304 intake and 288 exhaust. the ideal would be 11mm lift.
45mm throttles from the blacktop would be nice but not a major.
balance engine internals is very important
Make the ex manifold 4-2-1 or 4-1 again but heatwrap it cause its gonna make hectic heat.
a setup like this should use 102 octane but water meth injection with 95/97 fuel should work.
A Dry sump conversion would be essential if you revving pass 8000RPM.
Blacktop flywheel and the C160 Gearbox, the C160 has shorter ratios.
Note a 20v Peak Power is made at 6500 RPM, give or take...
theres no point revving all the way too 8000RPM all the time,
look at your power graph from a dyno report and work out from your ratios which is the best band for you. the oem camshaft is 250degree, you might wanna try a mild cam, like 268/272/276 if you wanna keep your VVT and drive the car everyday.
a setup like this should equate too 160kw on the fly wheel. im assuming...
remember 200Hp is 147kw..... not far just tricky...
billzilla gave his modz in stages...but its not that simple,
you cant put cams without headwork, bigger cams need higher compression,...you need the right rev range according to capacity and the correct breathing process...each engine has its way.
The 20v head is a better head than the 16v ,all the blocks are the same.
Toyota made that engine the way it is for a reason... we just have have too learn the correct tuning application.
I just got a feeling that a single throttle with a custom intake will work better than throttles,
remember the throttles sit against the firewall, i do understand theres a plenum, but i feel its not enough, the best setup is ram rubes and the throttles facing the front off the car, or you can cut a bonnet scoop into your hood...
another note with the airflow...
20v intake valve size is 26.5mm and ex 26mm
16v intake 29.5mm and exhaust 26.5mm...
lets take surface area... (i know this is not the correct way but too a non technical person it can prove a point)
20v Total Airflow Surface 26.5 x 12 = 318 intake and 26mm x 8 = 208 exhaust
16v Total Airflow Surface 29.5 x 8 = 236 intake and 26.5 x 8 = 212 exhaust
16v TRD Big Valve Conversion 32 x 8 = 256 intake and 27.5 x 8 = 220 exhaust
so the 20v is a better breather...
if you guys have time to use pI and circumference surface warra warra all this eistein stuff, then do it and prove me wrong in my claim.
Sup Ppl, Just a small write up on the 4A-GE (20V Version)
Im sure if you're reading this ure a toyota fan ,so you know what a 4age is,
if not just a short review, the Silvertop aka ST was made from 1991-1995 and the blacktop aka BT made from 1995 to 1998...i guess here in south africa we got all the spare engines that toyota made, and then all the models got scrapped due too mileage restrictions... well the 4age ended its design and the 20v was the closest an engine in 1600cc got to high performance.... as per wikipedia, the following cars featured this engine...
Silvertop Applications:
* AT210 Carina 1996–2001 (Japan only)
* AE101 Corolla 1991–2000 (Japan only)
* AE101 Corolla Ceres 1991–1998 (Japan only)
* AE101 Sprinter 1991–1998 (Japan only)
* AE101 Sprinter Marino 1991–1998 (Japan only)
Blacktop Applications:
* AE101G Corolla BZ touring wagon 1995–1999 (Japan)
* AE111 Corolla 1995–2000 (Japan only)
* AE111 Sprinter 1995–1998 (Japan only)
* AE111 Sprinter Carib 1997–2000 (Japan only)
* AE111 Corolla RSi and RXi Late 1997– Early 2002 (South Africa)
Bore is 81mm Stroke 77mm. Block is cast iron and the head is aluminum,
displacement is 1587cc and the head is operated by a dohc's
Note that Honda B16 Vtec is 1595cc cause the stroke is 77.4mm , higher compression...
Variable Valve Timing
Apart from ITBS , 5 Valve Design ...the 20V's featured VVT (not VVT-L)
VVT is variable valve timing, in simple terms its like having a vernier
that gets dialed in(correct term, You DIAL a vernier or camshaft) by a switch, the ECU Triggers a solenoid which allows oil too pass the VVT cam pulley ,and activates the advancing...
this causes the intake and exhaust valves to stay opened at the same time..
its like this... too much air is good for top end, and higher rpms... well top end is made
at a higher rpm... less air is good for low down power because the airflow is smoother...
its like the waves in the ocean...the bigger the wave due to more water the more harsh it is...lol bad example...ANYWAYS! overlap means that while exhaust gases are being released ,the intake stroke process begins early so when the piston hits TDC (top dead centre) theres an extra amount off air for combustion. Im under belief that the angle is changed by 30 degrees.
So VVT allows more air for high RPM's... by taking air into the chamber Early....
You will notice some cars make more power by advancing the standard cam timing by like 1 - 3 teeth. If you own a 20v, put 12v off direct current too you solenoid, the car will idle very ruff,
im assuming since the oem cam lobes are 250 degree and it advances by 30 degree's, then the cam degree is now 280 degree... because my car had VVT on permanently and it sounded rough as a 280..... when dyno'd by 20v Blacktop with Silvertop rods and Silvertop Cams, the VVT Turned on gave me 13kilowatts extra on 6500 RPM
Let me not give you a story let me give you the differences in a comparison form.
Silvertop - Blacktop
Compression Ratio : 10.5:1 - 11:1
Inlet ports are opened with no dividers - 3 equal ports with good dividers
Different offset vvt gears
ECU's are completely different
AFM Controlled - Map + TPS Controlled
6.9kg flywheel - 5.9kg flywheel
34.5cc chamber with squish areas - 37.8cc and exhaust squish only
7.97 intake lift - 8.2mm intake lift
Spring tension belt idler - hyraulic unit
Thick con-rods at 506g with bolts - very thin rods at 485g with bolts
Plastic trumpets - rubber trumpets
C56 5 Speed Gearbox - C160 6 Speed Gearbox
120 kw - 121 kw (in south africa 115k cause we Hav low octane fuel i assume)
43mm Individual Throttle Bodies - 45mm I.T.B's
Light pistons with 5 Flycuts aka valve pockets - Heavy pistons and exhaust flycuts only
Convential gudgen pins - gudgen pins with tapered ends (8g lighter)
More Blacktop Notes
BT has a wider face on the inlet port side
BT has a wider botton on the manifold and 4 additional vacuum bleeds into one mini plenum.
round thottles - more heart shaped opening
BT has wider inlet ports
BT has larger exhuast ports
Square shape opening on the inside of the intake gasket/heat insulator - ST Has triangle shape
BT engine might be a interference engine!
BT has a larger airbox volume
BT has 2 teeth longer timing belt
ALL 20V Engines have Under-bucket shims (i tawt there wasnt any at all lol)
Yes guys i source my info from wikipedia, forums and my own experiences.
Ok so look at the image below, the black top piston in the middle has shallow flycuts, which explains the increase in compression, look at toda, even higher than blacktop and lighter than silvertop...
The inlet ports are really small compared too the black top,
also the blacktop is neat smooth , so its the better one for airflow
Look at the silvertop combustion chamber compared to the blacktop...
the silvertop is very untidy but remember, this plays a role in high compression ;-) less squish area means higher compression ,same concept as lowering the head or raising the pistion, the only problem is that the compression maybe too high, and it can cause detonation...sometimes maybe burn a valve, bust the plug...pre-ignition is an enermy for the silvertop but higher octane
fuel will sort this out or retard the timing but then achieving the high rpm is gonna be hard, remember low capacity engines need to be revv'd high to make some good power especially when you have ITB's
heres the rod differences, people waste money buying 4AGZE Rods,
not realizing its the same thing as ST ,SP Rods.
The blacktop rod is way smaller but its lighter to revv higher,
people say their weak, but i refuse too believe that... why would a conrod break???
so the typical word is that the Silvertop is better for turbo and head work...
TURBO NO! Headwork yes...
other typical is that the blacktop head works well with the silvertop block.
CORRECT!
another 1... blocking an oil port on the head(to be confirmed which port) allows
more oil pressure in the block...
well this makes sense in a way... i just cant comment ...from my view i would simply run a dry sump setup, or make a bigger sump, really...everything needs oil. apparantly synthetic oil works very well with the 20v applications. someone confirm this? tx.
another typical, using 50mm throttles from the BMW M3?
thats non sense, your intake ports are 45mm on a blacktop ,
having a bigger throttle on a smaller port can actually reduce airflow,
unless you make your ports 50mm....
one more very common myth is that blacktop con rods are weak.
heres what i have too say about that....
how many 1600's rev too 8000RPM? do you think a stock standard 20v RSI or RXI will break if you red line it everyday provided you service the car and maintain oil levels? ok who has broken a con rod? con rods are hardened steel!!! usually people run the conrod out the block, make a beeeeg hole! using the wrong oil, less oil and over rev'n will make the rod run the bearing and run off the crank and sieze, thats when it cannot rotate an it pushes down when the combustion process occurs! at high RPM's low quality oil or the wrong oil can become too thin, and loose some of its lubricating properties...and you guys should be happy that you even have 8000RPM, some guys get greedy and want to rev 9000 and even 9500...... doing that will take you no where cause a dyno report will prove that your car doesnt make an increase in power there.
toyota know what people do with 4AGE's and toyota put blacktop rods for a reason...
lighter to rev smoother and a higher rev range...
also 90% on project builders forget to balance your engines...
higher lift?
well as per toda ,the highest lift cam they make is 9.2...
im assuming the stock lift max is 8.5 giv or take...
with high rev springs, 9.2...
kelford sells 10.5mm lift and the toda springs cater for 11mm...not sure hey...
bare in mind ,the valves are in angles so theres no place,
maybe bigger valves with short stems. ... not sure bout that thou...
the header aka branch or exhaust manifold?
the best is the oem one, the oem one has 43/45 dia pipe and guess what? the ports
are the same size...i cant remember the exact figure but my blacktop matched the size of the off oem manifold. for race use, you might wanna go 4 into 1, ... bigger is not always better...
would a 20v 4AGE Make more power on a 72mm exhaust system or 57mm exhaust system? in its stock form...
So crossing these two engines is better than having one of either?
i cannot answer that really, i think its more or less the same in stock form...
notes on common hybrid
when i mean common hybrid, im talking bout the blacktop head and throttles on a silvertop block... it makes a strong setup but thats about it, the silvertop compression is made in the head and the blacktop in the block, you end up with a lower compression setup crossing them...
i think compression makes a bigger difference that 2mm on a throttle body,
i must stress on the importance off having the highest compression setup with the lightest internals, high comp cause of aspiration and light internals to revv high due too the small capacity.
So how would i build a 20v Engine?
I Believe toyota engines last long due too high quality materials so if you cannot afford Toda, HKS, TRD and others...then stick too oem.
so the only problem with the blacktop is that the combustion chamber is that theres no squish area, so just add squish area's...now thats gonna be tricky cause you have to be very accurate too make sure you add the same amount on all four... and its gonna be costly...
so its simple.....
take a silvertop engine...
blacktop rods and pistons(ceramic coat them) with ARP Conrod bolts
thinner head gasket,
make the inlet ports bigger and all the head work too get it like a blacktop...
remove squish rough lines so its smooth but dont cut too much cause you need the squish area...
blacktop cams are a good choice for this... from my personal experience my 20v Blacktop made more power with silvertop cams...dont ask me why...
i would remove the VVT ,and use verniers and higher degree split cams, like 272 intake 268 exhaust for everyday use, for weekend use 292 intake 276 exhaust, for complete race spec, i would use 304 intake and 288 exhaust. the ideal would be 11mm lift.
45mm throttles from the blacktop would be nice but not a major.
balance engine internals is very important
Make the ex manifold 4-2-1 or 4-1 again but heatwrap it cause its gonna make hectic heat.
a setup like this should use 102 octane but water meth injection with 95/97 fuel should work.
A Dry sump conversion would be essential if you revving pass 8000RPM.
Blacktop flywheel and the C160 Gearbox, the C160 has shorter ratios.
Note a 20v Peak Power is made at 6500 RPM, give or take...
theres no point revving all the way too 8000RPM all the time,
look at your power graph from a dyno report and work out from your ratios which is the best band for you. the oem camshaft is 250degree, you might wanna try a mild cam, like 268/272/276 if you wanna keep your VVT and drive the car everyday.
a setup like this should equate too 160kw on the fly wheel. im assuming...
remember 200Hp is 147kw..... not far just tricky...
billzilla gave his modz in stages...but its not that simple,
you cant put cams without headwork, bigger cams need higher compression,...you need the right rev range according to capacity and the correct breathing process...each engine has its way.
The 20v head is a better head than the 16v ,all the blocks are the same.
Toyota made that engine the way it is for a reason... we just have have too learn the correct tuning application.
I just got a feeling that a single throttle with a custom intake will work better than throttles,
remember the throttles sit against the firewall, i do understand theres a plenum, but i feel its not enough, the best setup is ram rubes and the throttles facing the front off the car, or you can cut a bonnet scoop into your hood...
another note with the airflow...
20v intake valve size is 26.5mm and ex 26mm
16v intake 29.5mm and exhaust 26.5mm...
lets take surface area... (i know this is not the correct way but too a non technical person it can prove a point)
20v Total Airflow Surface 26.5 x 12 = 318 intake and 26mm x 8 = 208 exhaust
16v Total Airflow Surface 29.5 x 8 = 236 intake and 26.5 x 8 = 212 exhaust
16v TRD Big Valve Conversion 32 x 8 = 256 intake and 27.5 x 8 = 220 exhaust
so the 20v is a better breather...
if you guys have time to use pI and circumference surface warra warra all this eistein stuff, then do it and prove me wrong in my claim.