C60 to 4AGE Is it possible?

[trife96]

I have a dilemma at hand. Unfortunately the 5 speed that came with my Blacktop has either a bad pinion gear in the diff, or the bearing inside the tranny where the CV axle connects inside the transmission is going out. I decided before I lock up the tranny and cause a lot more damage to pull the transmission. So now the car is sitting up again on jack stands. I have already begun the removal process. At this point I can save a lot of money on repairs if it's just a bearing. However, a new differential I priced is as much as $1100. I haven't done a lot of shopping at this point but this was just one price that has been quoted by WC Engineering who seems to know Toyota transmissions pretty well.

Anyway, upon getting the quote, I was questioning the possibility of getting parts for these. I was told that the C56 and C60 use a lot of similar parts internally. So then I did a little research and found that the C60 was 6 speeds! So this brought some excitement. However, I also found the C56 has been changed over and over again thru out the years. The same C56 bolted to my 20V was offered in a later model Celica. Side by side, they look similar but some noticeable differences is the starter is on the front, shift cables hook on the front. They don't look alike at all. But I also seen they did have a C60 where the cables hooked on the back as well.

Now before everyone states the obvious, I have a couple reasons for not choosing the C160 which would bolt directly with a minor mod to the transmission mount. First off, any C160 I find would have been imported with unknown mileage and condition. I really don't want to spend $600 and wind up with another crap tranny. Second is I've heard some say the C56 is actually a superior transmission over the C160 as far as durability goes. And would be even more true for the C60.

Below are a couple of threads I found that seem very enticing which tempts me to proceed with this swap.

RESEARCHED THREADS:

bigmike.marlincrawler.com/forum/index.php?topic=45.0

board.tercelonline.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=22533


Concerns and questions:
1. Can anyone here confirm that this swap was successful?
2. Can the bell housings be swapped?
3. Can the internals be swapped from the C60. This would require taking the guts of the C60 and the C60 tail housing, keeping only the C56 bell housing and the center housing?

Thanks for any input. Depending on what I find out, this thread will hopefully be helpful to a lot of people as I will document all the information with photos once this project takes off. Hoping to have this ready for SR9 if possible.

[Rinconrolla]

I have a black top 5spd tranny in my shed $75 bucks its yours

[sk149]

I think Chiko is the person you want to talk to about this since he had the 6 speed in his 20v

[305rolla]

One thing you should know that all the A series transmission is interchangeable so you can use one from a 4age 16v or 7a/4afe but I would go with the 4age 16v one

[trife96]

Ant-thanks for the offer, the goal is to upgrade to 6-speeds. However, the price is very very hard to turn down. I may wind up taking you up on this offer if the C60 conversion turns out to be a bust. This would have to go motor freight to me. I have freight accounts thru my work so can you give me the zip code where it would be shipping from? Also if you don't mind, post up some pics of the gearbox. What can you tell me about it?

Sk149-I actually tried calling him already and left him a message, but he never called me back. He had the C160 which is not the same. But on the other hand, I think he has the C60 6-speed in his new Celica, which the exact transmission I'm talking about.

305rolla-I'm aware of this already, but again, the goal is to have a 6-speed

Thanks for the input guys. I did get word back from WC Engineering that the bell housings can be swapped. If this is true. This will make it very easy to take my existing bell housing, swap it to the C60, and bolt it up. So this is very exciting news. Still not sure on the mounts still. So my research will continue on that. Also, If Chicko is reading. Some good pics of your transmission would be helpful.

Thanks again everyone!

[trife96]

Just wanted to update....

After more research, the C60 is most likely a go. I am currently saving up for the C60. The donor car for this project can't be no other than an 03-06 Toyota Matrix XRS. The C60 is found in a few other cars, however, this model has the shift cable linkage on the firewall side which is where it needs to be. The first thing will be swapping the bell housing. From what I can tell, this will be rather straight forward. There is an opportunity to deal with the differential at this point if need be. Also, some issues that I have learned is the axle splines for the transmission is 20 instead of 23 on my current transmission. So new axles will have to be ordered. After extensive research, I think I have figured out which axles from which cars I can use.

The passenger side will likely be from the 99 RAV4. The drivers side will come from a 04 MR2. There is a slight difference in length, but super close. I think they will work fine. On most Toyotas, I have found the outboard or wheel hub splines are usually 26. And in this case, the splines for the outboard shaft from both donor cars was exactly the same so no issue there. Gotta love Toyota!

I've found some used C60's for around $600-$800 with decent mileage. But my last concern is the flywheel to clutch setup. I've yet to find info on the input shaft on the C60 as far as the splines go. Also I still have to research the clutch kit. I'm considering a much better clutch set up this time. Possibly a light weight flywheel and better clutch kit. But at this point, it doesn't look like I will make it to Sibling Rivalry this year. This project will most likely take me into middle of next year unfortunately. But as the updates come, I will be posting them here first.

[305rolla]

The corolla xrs should have the same transmission

[pinoyrollarida]

Matrix xrs corolla xrs and celica gts all same trans and motors just diff tuning

[trife96]

^ Yes and no. The C60 is essentially exactly the same but are slightly different only when it comes to the center housing. They were also used in the MR2 Spyder. But keep in mind, the goal is to have to do the least amount of modification as possible. If you look at a Celica C60, the shift cable linkage is on the front of the gearbox (radiator side). This means the center housing would have to be swapped or modification to the shift selector to make it work. The Matrix or Pontiac Vibe GT C60 linkage is on the firewall side which is the same as the 7th Gen Corolla.

[akuma64]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! No sibling rivalry?

[trife96]

Began removal of the tranny. The C60 is pretty much a definite possibility. Once I get the tranny removed, I will split the bell housing and see what's wrong with the 5 speed.

[akuma64]

dang man well glad youre getting to it! Cant wit to see how this c60 thing comes out

[trife96]

More progress, I got the transmission removed, really wasn't too bad at all. I did it by mysaelf. Now the transmission fell off the jack and on the ground. I tried to use a jack and lower it down but it wasn't well balanced on there, but fortunately it didn't mess anything up. Now, not really knowing what to do, I did split the bell housing, and removed the diff. Found the diff is bad and one of the gears has alot of slack.

So, next step, not sure really... I've done a lot of research on the C62 swap (a mix breed of the C52 and C60) and I have confirmed it can be done. But my concerns are cost and how much I want spend. The transmission will definitely cost me $600, tyhen to make sure it goes together correctly, I'm looking at possibly another $400.

But anyway, here are some pics


Overall the inside looked pretty good





This is the differential, I was hoping that one of those roller bearings was the problem...not so lucky

[trife96]

Here are some sample photos from various websites I found showing pictures of the C60 and C52/C56





C60 Bell Housing



C60 Center & Tail Housing



C52/C56



side by side comparison



C60

[cbrigs2010]

so i am guessing ur car wont be ready for the car show on the 12th in belle rose?

[trife96]

^ Nope, to be honest, I'm looking at late next year before the car is ready. It's just not a priority right now. Well, it is but it isn't. I would love to have it fixed and up and running immediately, but currently, we are trying to pay down debt don't have extra cash to go around. Me and my wife both work. I have two jobs. We have 3 kids. So unless I get a huge raise for some unknown reason. I just can't put my hard earned money towards the car right now. If I was single, I would say, screw the debt and do what I want. But my wife is right...the bills should be taken care of first. So that is the goal. But trust me, I want this done so badly, I know it can be done, the only thing holding me back is the money.

[trife96]

Finally some progress, found a good used C60 for $250 with only 88K miles! I already noticed one issue already. The drivers side motor mount bracket will bolt up, but the shift link bracket is in the way. Minor modification will have to be done to make it work. Just need to shave down the bracket slightly. I will try to get another pic later to show what I mean. Began seperating the bell housing but man, it would not budge. So I will come back to it another day. Besides, my plans on installing will come later anyway. A couple things on my to do list is add some polyurethane mounts for the front and rear. Also I considered a lightweight flywhweel but the BT already has a considerably light flywheel compared to the silvertop and the 16V 4AGE, so I probably will leave that alone. But most important, I'm just happy to finally have some updates to share. Plus I don't think anyone has attempted this swap exactly to a 20V so I'm even more excited about that!







6 SPEEDS!!!!!!!!

[mindbeats]

Nice hope it comes together can't wait to see it done

[akuma64]

aww man! this is gonna be nuts!!!!

[trife96]

I need to add, after speaking with the "very helpful" guys at WC Engineering. They assured me that there is no easy way to just swap the bell housing. I was able to remove the bell housing from my old transmission, but in the process, I lost a spring that was attached to the reverse selector. There is no way to reattach it and reassemble it without proper disassembly.

So, with the C60, I have no choice but to remove the rear cover first, and disassemble using the method the manual gives, just to swap the housing. I need to acquire some more tooling from Harbor Freight, and do it right. With this being the case, I might as well go with a rebuild kit in the process and make it fresh.